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Thread: How Macaulay Ruined Ancient Indian Education System.

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    Thumbs up How Macaulay Ruined Ancient Indian Education System.

    A proud Indian Scientist & Orator - Bharat Swabhiman Dr. Rajiv Dixit describes about the glorious ancient Gurukul education system of India & explains how it was gradually eliminated by the
    Britishers by introducing the western(convent) style of education & thereby ending to the age old Guru-Shishya tradition.

    A must to listen for all Indians.



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    Before Macaulay india had caste system, SATI practice. If education system was so great why there has not been any revolution against I'll practices followed by society?

    Rajiv dixit is respectable person for his conviction not for his phylosophy. He is afraid to go ahead and face new problems brought by new era.

    New problem are inevitable. It is just a matter of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by not-yet-divorced-starved View Post
    Before Macaulay india had caste system, SATI practice. If education system was so great why there has not been any revolution against I'll practices followed by society?

    Rajiv dixit is respectable person for his conviction not for his phylosophy. He is afraid to go ahead and face new problems brought by new era.

    New problem are inevitable. It is just a matter of time.
    Very true. I agree with you to an extent. but, have you read Europe's history of last 2 millennium? As far as I know, they were worst than India. Yes, worst.
    most of the Indians don't know that a similar superstitious system or society also flourished in Europe & America, which was even worst compared with Indian subcontinent.

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    That is because Europe took responsibility for their own society. Indian held invaders or gave some other excuses for their social state. Unless problem is accepted as problem - as it is - there can not be any solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by not-yet-divorced-starved View Post
    That is because Europe took responsibility for their own society. Indian held invaders or gave some other excuses for their social state. Unless problem is accepted as problem - as it is - there can not be any solution.
    True very very True.

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    Quote Originally Posted by not-yet-divorced-starved View Post
    Before Macaulay india had caste system, SATI practice. If education system was so great why there has not been any revolution against I'll practices followed by society?

    Rajiv dixit is respectable person for his conviction not for his phylosophy. He is afraid to go ahead and face new problems brought by new era.

    New problem are inevitable. It is just a matter of time.
    Quote Originally Posted by not-yet-divorced-starved View Post
    That is because Europe took responsibility for their own society. Indian held invaders or gave some other excuses for their social state. Unless problem is accepted as problem - as it is - there can not be any solution.
    1. Only contribution if any needs to be credited to Macaulay was "Introduction of English" in our education system , but he didnt introduced for Noble cuase...but for political benefits and Colonist approach ....

    2. What Sati has to do with him ........ or Caste system ..... every soceity has its own "Grey areas" ......and we as a soceity did conciously overcome such evils ......

    3. Rajiv Dixit is respected for his ideology and fact based opinions ......

    4. India was never a "Conservative" society or "anti-innovation" society ...... Pity is west is looking towards India for spirituality and fellows like you are praising west for everything and cursing Indian Society ..... YES we had many challenges and we were transforming ..... but we were open for all experiments with reality and rationality .....

    Lets Enlighten you and many like you for "Indian Contribution" as you are blindly impressed with West

    1. who gave Zero to the world ...... if zero wouldnot have been there .......just think of maths
    2. Finite Difference Interpolation: The Indian mathematician Brahmagupta presented what is possibly the first instanceof finite difference interpolation around 665 CE.
    3. Algebraic abbreviations
    : The mathematician Brahmagupta had begun using abbreviations for unknowns by the 7th century
    4. Hindu number system: With decimal place-value and a symbol for zero, this system was the ancestor of the widely used Arabic numeral system. It was developed in the Indian subcontinent between the 1st and 6th centuries CE.
    5. Ayurvedic and Siddha medicine: Ayurveda and Siddha are ancient and traditional systems of medicine. Ayurveda dates back to Iron Age India(1st millennium BC) and still practiced today as a form of complementary and alternative medicine.
    6. Cataract surgery: Cataract surgery was known to the Indian physician Sushruta (6th century BCE).In India, cataract surgery was performed with a special tool called the Jabamukhi Salaka, a curved needle used to loosen the lens and push the cataract out of the field of vision
    7.Shampoo: The word shampoo in English is derived from Hindustani chāmpo ,and dates to 1762. The shampoo itself originated in the eastern regions of the Mughal Empire that ruled erstwhile India, particularly in the Nawab of Bengal where it was introduced as a head massage, usually consisting of alkali, natural oils and fragrances. Shampoo was first introduced in Britain by a Bengali entrepreneur from Bihar


    these are just few illustrations ...... since Ramyana period we had technology and science ranging from Medicines to engineering to aero sapce ....

    Every soceity has their Plus and minuses...but relativity never shows true picture .....

    British have their own culture and we re not to judge by comparing it to indian culture .....similarly cant be true if relatively judge indian culture
    If you think any candle march will affect "Islamic Terrorism", you are fooling yourself, Kill them or be ready for next attack !!

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    2. What Sati has to do with him ........ or Caste system ..... every soceity has its own "Grey areas" ......and we as a soceity did conciously overcome such evils ......
    When i was stuying I was taught that it was Rajaram mohan roy and british government put efforts to eradicate SATI system. Till then no Indian ruler had any awareness to eradicate system. Have you ever listened to RAJIV DIXIT who talks about ONE SIDED FACTS always? According to him RAJA RAM MOHAN ROY was british agent and he harmed society more than he helped. I am not sure. who is right but reading little bit of history, I could understand that few decade of british rule brought more social change in India than past millennia. They ruled us because we as an Indian were impotent and they won our territory.

    Why think of gray area of other society? Does it affects me or society I live in? NO, so hell with them how ever they are.

    3. Rajiv Dixit is respected for his ideology and fact based opinions ......
    I also made same statement 15 years back , now no more. Means I am 15 years matured. He always represent one sided view beautifully and best part about his is using all technology to propagate his own philosophy yet keep on criticizing technology - he is anti technology despite of being IITian.

    He talks about findings of old scriptures which are out dated and no more relevant.

    4. India was never a "Conservative" society or "anti-innovation" society ...... Pity is west is looking towards India for spirituality and fellows like you are praising west for everything and cursing Indian Society ..... YES we had many challenges and we were transforming ..... but we were open for all experiments with reality and rationality .....
    India had great philosophers and has contributed to science, maths and astronomy. But if it was not India some one else could have because time never waits for any one. Today India is using all technologies developed by west and spirituality appears only on talks. I am not sure WHAT spirituality means, BUT IS SEEMS FEEDING MILLIONS UNPRODUCTIVE, GANJHA SMOKING SADHUS WHO ARE KNOWN AS SAINTS AND DOING AARTI, POOJA, HAWANS AND USELESS RITUALS DAY IN AND DAY OUT IS SPIRITUALITY.

    No one knows who made few basic inventions like wheel, fire, agriculture. Civilizations are always collective. So it is just a false pride and ego to say OH I BELONG TO SUPERIOR RACE / COUNTRY / RELIGION.

    Yog, Upnishadas, Ayurveda and such scriptures are science. Sciences are always collective.

    What really spreaded information across the globe? it is invention of printing, It was CHINA who invented printing but their language was not suitable for printing so invention remained underutilized for about 400 years. It was Indian / arabs / european who could use the invention because script they used had only few tens of charecters which can make millions of word by combination where as chinese language had 22000 characters still could not be as explicit as other script. Then Europe developed machines to print rapidly, Means even rapid spread of knowledge in past few hundred years is gift of EUROPE not china - in current context. Had chinese anticipated the use of printing they could have worked upon simplifying their language to progress further.

    talking about fantasy stories of ramayana and mahabharat is nothing but assuming a car with headlight fitted on back. Where driver enjoys trailing dust cloud rather than dangers in journey ahead. What is so great about prevailing story of ramayana in modern context? It is absolutely inhumane, anti women and anti contemporary philosophy of liberty & equality.

    There are thousands of scriptures world wide which imagined and fantasized technology years before it could be materialized. That does not mean that such technology ever existed......

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsocialdoctor View Post
    ..... since Ramyana period we had technology and science ranging from Medicines to engineering to aero sapce ....


    hahahahahahaha....when was this ramayana period????...could u please elaborate on the specific years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by not-yet-divorced-starved View Post
    When i was stuying I was taught that it was Rajaram mohan roy and british government put efforts to eradicate SATI system. Till then no Indian ruler had any awareness to eradicate system. Have you ever listened to RAJIV DIXIT who talks about ONE SIDED FACTS always? According to him RAJA RAM MOHAN ROY was british agent and he harmed society more than he helped. I am not sure. who is right but reading little bit of history, I could understand that few decade of british rule brought more social change in India than past millennia. They ruled us because we as an Indian were impotent and they won our territory.

    Why think of gray area of other society? Does it affects me or society I live in? NO, so hell with them how ever they are.



    I also made same statement 15 years back , now no more. Means I am 15 years matured. He always represent one sided view beautifully and best part about his is using all technology to propagate his own philosophy yet keep on criticizing technology - he is anti technology despite of being IITian.

    He talks about findings of old scriptures which are out dated and no more relevant.



    India had great philosophers and has contributed to science, maths and astronomy. But if it was not India some one else could have because time never waits for any one. Today India is using all technologies developed by west and spirituality appears only on talks. I am not sure WHAT spirituality means, BUT IS SEEMS FEEDING MILLIONS UNPRODUCTIVE, GANJHA SMOKING SADHUS WHO ARE KNOWN AS SAINTS AND DOING AARTI, POOJA, HAWANS AND USELESS RITUALS DAY IN AND DAY OUT IS SPIRITUALITY.

    No one knows who made few basic inventions like wheel, fire, agriculture. Civilizations are always collective. So it is just a false pride and ego to say OH I BELONG TO SUPERIOR RACE / COUNTRY / RELIGION.

    Yog, Upnishadas, Ayurveda and such scriptures are science. Sciences are always collective.

    What really spreaded information across the globe? it is invention of printing, It was CHINA who invented printing but their language was not suitable for printing so invention remained underutilized for about 400 years. It was Indian / arabs / european who could use the invention because script they used had only few tens of charecters which can make millions of word by combination where as chinese language had 22000 characters still could not be as explicit as other script. Then Europe developed machines to print rapidly, Means even rapid spread of knowledge in past few hundred years is gift of EUROPE not china - in current context. Had chinese anticipated the use of printing they could have worked upon simplifying their language to progress further.

    talking about fantasy stories of ramayana and mahabharat is nothing but assuming a car with headlight fitted on back. Where driver enjoys trailing dust cloud rather than dangers in journey ahead. What is so great about prevailing story of ramayana in modern context? It is absolutely inhumane, anti women and anti contemporary philosophy of liberty & equality.

    There are thousands of scriptures world wide which imagined and fantasized technology years before it could be materialized. That does not mean that such technology ever existed......
    well tried ......... but low in content and logics and ....more on emotional whims .....

    and yes we have democracy that you call our countrymen impotent ......... good for you .....

    lets begin

    1. History which you claim to read is either british/Mughal historian...then nourished by Congress for "Nehruvian imapct" ....... my knwoledge isnt limited to that " Impoetnt Indians " version only , i ahve many things to pride about my country...its culture and its countrymen

    2. Sati ....anyone can google it and claim few facts here and there ....... it was evil and we a s a society eliminated the same , no harm in accepting ...no bravery in denying

    3. British ruled us bcoz we were not united as a nation but spread as provinces...and same goes for earlier invaders and robbers ..... but that does entitle you or anyone call us "impotent" ....... NOPE .....

    4. Every invader and rulers has affect on India and its culture...but we have never missed on ESSENCE or our culture which strives for spirituality.... If Forced conversion brought by britishers or treating us like slave are smaller reasons for you to love their rule ...... you are exception

    5. First, what you think about Rajeev dixit is irrelevant and unqulaified for entire discussion , he represented what he wanted and millions follows .....

    6. When it comes to Indians you dicredited by writing "But if it was not India some one else could have because time never waits for any one." but when it comes to some smaller chnages in soceity you Ring bell very hard to praise "Cheaters" who ruled our country ...... Yes we are democracy and you can still love and praise people who ruled us .....like most in Gandhi dynasty do

    7. For you Technology may belongs to world .....but India is no way a second class citizen when it comes to "Techies and Programmers" ...no need to even claim that we are no. 1 ......newasy ...... for you spritiuality may just limited to Ganjas and Aartis and Hawans may be useless rituals ......but somehow can you even say same thing about Namaz and visiting kaba (Old out dated) as u say...... You wont understand Rituals like aartis and hawans ......its not your mistake ...its benchmarks

    8. when discrediting India "Civilisations are collective" but whne crediting to British or others like China...they invented and craeted ...... Double speak and weiried logics ..... revisit what you have written in same reply

    9. and talking about information and language...wont tell you about devnagri and sankrit and its usage in modern programming levels and backups ..... you better ignore ...good for you

    10. First you claim Ramayana was a Fanatsy (Though on facts too , Allahabad High court reject your claim) just like What congressi said in court afaidavit .... so an Indian (you are , i am assuming) you want to say Ramayana was Fanatsy .......So does Mahabharat ....... i wont waste time to explain you ..... ask any Indian ...... Ram is India's identity .......

    Thanks for confirming your maturity and identity with your thoughtful coneption of ANTI - INDIA ANTI -HINDU sentiments ...... You dont have to work extra to attain this "GENIUS" stage .........
    If you think any candle march will affect "Islamic Terrorism", you are fooling yourself, Kill them or be ready for next attack !!

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    Wow any opinion other than your own is anti hindu and anti indian.

    Why you have to bring Allah or namaz or kaba in every discussion? For me all religious places are just pieces of art and places of fanaticism. They are made to intimid ate non followers or non agreeing groups. Every scriptures are books of fools to make others fool. Every rituals are mindless practice in fear of so called super power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsocialdoctor View Post
    1. Only contribution if any needs to be credited to Macaulay was "Introduction of English" in our education system , but he didnt introduced for Noble cuase...but for political benefits and Colonist approach ....

    2. What Sati has to do with him ........ or Caste system ..... every soceity has its own "Grey areas" ......and we as a soceity did conciously overcome such evils ......

    3. Rajiv Dixit is respected for his ideology and fact based opinions ......

    4. India was never a "Conservative" society or "anti-innovation" society ...... Pity is west is looking towards India for spirituality and fellows like you are praising west for everything and cursing Indian Society ..... YES we had many challenges and we were transforming ..... but we were open for all experiments with reality and rationality .....

    Lets Enlighten you and many like you for "Indian Contribution" as you are blindly impressed with West

    1. who gave Zero to the world ...... if zero wouldnot have been there .......just think of maths
    2. Finite Difference Interpolation: The Indian mathematician Brahmagupta presented what is possibly the first instanceof finite difference interpolation around 665 CE.
    3. Algebraic abbreviations
    : The mathematician Brahmagupta had begun using abbreviations for unknowns by the 7th century
    4. Hindu number system: With decimal place-value and a symbol for zero, this system was the ancestor of the widely used Arabic numeral system. It was developed in the Indian subcontinent between the 1st and 6th centuries CE.5. Ayurvedic and Siddha medicine: Ayurveda and Siddha are ancient and traditional systems of medicine. Ayurveda dates back to Iron Age India(1st millennium BC) and still practiced today as a form of complementary and alternative medicine.
    6. Cataract surgery: Cataract surgery was known to the Indian physician Sushruta (6th century BCE).In India, cataract surgery was performed with a special tool called the Jabamukhi Salaka, a curved needle used to loosen the lens and push the cataract out of the field of vision
    7.Shampoo: The word shampoo in English is derived from Hindustani chāmpo ,and dates to 1762. The shampoo itself originated in the eastern regions of the Mughal Empire that ruled erstwhile India, particularly in the Nawab of Bengal where it was introduced as a head massage, usually consisting of alkali, natural oils and fragrances. Shampoo was first introduced in Britain by a Bengali entrepreneur from Bihar


    these are just few illustrations ...... since Ramyana period we had technology and science ranging from Medicines to engineering to aero sapce ....

    Every soceity has their Plus and minuses...but relativity never shows true picture .....

    British have their own culture and we re not to judge by comparing it to indian culture .....similarly cant be true if relatively judge indian culture

    Superb answer. Proud of you brother.

    Our far ancestors used to learn under tree shades, that doesn't mean they didn't had etiquettes, in fact, in that time, we were far more intellectual than any other countries or society of the world.

    British arrived, colonised India made us realise that we are far inferior than them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by not-yet-divorced-starved View Post
    Wow any opinion other than your own is anti hindu and anti indian.

    Why you have to bring Allah or namaz or kaba in every discussion? For me all religious places are just pieces of art and places of fanaticism. They are made to intimid ate non followers or non agreeing groups. Every scriptures are books of fools to make others fool. Every rituals are mindless practice in fear of so called super power.
    As far as superstition is concerned, I agree with you. Even today, there are thousands & thousands of mindless rituals prevailing in our society which other societies(Europen/American) has abolished. We continue to do, & feel proud for that.

    Through this mindless rituals/superstitions(do not mistake it with spirituality), we are just polluting every inch of our nature such as river, land, air etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by not-yet-divorced-starved View Post
    Every scriptures are books of fools to make others fool.
    And parents are much to blame for when they decide to teach these to their children and tell them to unconditionally accept and believe for eternity. Its mind warping how we teach children to ‘read religious stuff’ but never teach them to ‘question what they read’ . . .

    In a sense, it’s a form of psychological abuse. I think there should be a law against teaching religion to children under 18.



    So may it be

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisbonstar28 View Post
    And parents are much to blame for when they decide to teach these to their children and tell them to unconditionally accept and believe for eternity. Its mind warping how we teach children to ‘read religious stuff’ but never teach them to ‘question what they read’ . . .

    In a sense, it’s a form of psychological abuse. I think there should be a law against teaching religion to children under 18.



    wow, just wow....

    same way, teaching science and math also a psychological abuse, isn't it??

    Let them decide what they want to learn, but after they become mature enough. And the age of maturity must be 18 years.

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    @thread...

    I support change of system, but I don't think the current system ruined, rather we ourself had stick to such lame system of education even after so many years of independence.
    let it rain over me....

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